Former Trump attorney Michael Cohen keeps making things worse and worse for the prosecution that he's supposed to be helping. Glenn and Stu provide the latest update: Cohen has admitted to stealing from the Trump Organization and lying about it. The media has tried to paint this confession as just "another big ding." But Glenn argues that this is more akin to a massive car wreck that could topple the trial. However, has this jury already made up its mind — similar to what happened in OJ Simpson's case — so that nothing can change its mind?
TranscriptBelow is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: All right. Let's get an update here on what just happened in the -- in the Cohen and Donald Trump trial. There's -- Cohen is still on the stand. Oh, my gosh. It's going to be the longest days of his life. He is being cross-examined.
Remember, he's the key witness, in this Donald Trump trial with Stormy Daniels.
STU: And he's really -- without Cohen, there isn't even a case to be brought. You have to believe Cohen. Because much of the evidence that you would need, to make Donald Trump into the bad guy here is specifically based on things that Cohen has said or done. And has sole knowledge of.
He's the only person who has knowledge of it. So you have to trust Cohen.
GLENN: Yeah. It all went true him. He's the guy, who if he dropped dead, hit by a bus, the whole thing would be gone.
STU: And just to remind listeners, the -- you know, the -- the Michael Cohen situation is not a good one. It was never a good one when Trump was there. I believe he won our least reliable human being on earth competition for five straight years.
GLENN: Yes. Yes.
STU: He was not reliable back then. Substantiate reliable now. The media has tried to rehabilitate him, because they need him for this case.
So the attorney for Trump is questioning, and going after Michael Cohen to try to make him look as credible as he actually is. Which is not at all.
And he went to him, and talked to him about a specific transaction with a company called Red Finch. Red Finch was an IT kind of company that Michael Cohen was kind of dealing with. And what they were doing with this company, at the time was somewhat embarrassing, I suppose.
They were trying to rig online polls in Trump's favor. So remember about the time, these polls would come out. Who do you think should win the Republican nomination?
This is the 2016 election.
And Trump would win overwhelmingly
Even when he wasn't winning in the normal polls.
He would win on the other polls.
GLENN: This is why we said, the online polls are ridiculous.
Everybody rigs it. Everybody.
STU: Yeah. Although, this is --
GLENN: No. No. No. To some degree.
People will be like, I will vote. Hey, vote on this. Vote on this.
Vote a million times. Whatever it is.
STU: This is apparently a professional effort to do that. And they were owed $50,000 for their efforts in this front.
Now, Cohen, apparently. And this all happened on the stand.
Cohen was supposed to pay $50,000 to this company.
But ended up only paying them $20,000.
He still, however, asked for a 50,000-dollar reimbursement from the Trump organization.
Blanch, the attorney asked Cohen, hey, did you lie about this?
Cohen, on the stand says, yes.
Admits that, yes. He did lie about this.
GLENN: Wait. Wait. Wait.
He just admitted. I just want to make sure everybody understands.
He just admitted to cheating a company out of 30 grand.
Asking his own company. Or his own firm.
Donald Trump's firm to pay the 50,000 to him. Which he was supposed to pay. He only pays 20.
And what does he do with the other 30?
STU: I mean, he pockets it.
It's interesting. The reporting on it. It's a little hard to tell, whether he actually said this. Or whether he just sort of agreed to it.
But he was -- blanch, the attorney, brought up the possibility of him having the money in either a tussle bag, or a brown paper bag.
GLENN: That's where I like to keep my money.
It's safe that way.
STU: It's the Fani Willis banking system. That's -- that's the way that works.
So he -- he goes to this. And he says, okay. You have this duffle bag of cash.
Where was the cash?
He goes after him on this.
He then tries to focus. What he says true. Of course, if you're an employee of a company. And you're working on a company. And you charge someone $50,000.
And then pocket $30,000. That's -- what we all recognize, is theft.
GLENN: Embezzlement or theft.
STU: Yeah. You're just stealing money from the company that gave you $50,000.
GLENN: Wait a minute. I just want to make sure, Stu, Sara, you both understand that concept, right?
That's theft.
STU: I'm not sure what he's saying. Sara.
(laughter)
STU: Are you there?
GLENN: Okay. Go ahead.
STU: So the Trump attorney says, and tries to get this down. Get everyone to understand it.
In case people don't understand. This is stealing.
He says, quote, you stole from the Trump organization. Right?
He, by the way, was -- Cohen was reimbursed for about $100,000 in these expenses. Because he was always double the expenses from taxes.
About $100,000 in all.
GLENN: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
What do you mean he was getting doubled for taxes?
STU: If he took $50,000 to do one of these shady dealings. Like he did with Stormy Daniels. The Trump organization would pay him basically double. So Cohen wouldn't get stuck with the tax bill.
So Cohen would pay the taxes as if it was income. And then he would still be left over with the same amount he paid to Stormy Daniels or in this case, this IT organization.
GLENN: Got it.
STU: So he's -- the quote is, you stole from the Trump organization, right? From the attorney. Cohen admits, yes, sir. He says, on the stand.
Now, even the New York Times writes this up this way, there is another -- this is another big ding to Cohen's credibility.
GLENN: Ding?
STU: Yes. Jurors have heard he's lied to Congress, tax authorities, and on the witness stand. And now they are hearing that he stole from the Trump organization.
GLENN: Now, I've had dings in my car.
STU: Yes.
GLENN: I would say this was a massive wreckage, where the car would be totaled.
STU: I would argue they totaled the car on this one. I don't know how you could possibly believe this guy anyway. Now, if there were text messages or other things supporting it, maybe you could say, all right. Well, he's telling the story.
There are a few other pieces of evidence that agree with it. And that has happened on some points during this case.
But generally speaking, they are relying almost solely on Michael Cohen to be the voice of credibility.
And now we know that not only has he lied to everyone else in his life. By the way, including his wife.
We didn't even include that on the list. Who he lied to, when he took out all of this money on a second mortgage, and tried to hide it from her by his own admission. He's admitted to lying to all of these people.
Basically, you're supposed to believe, that he's taken every moment of his entire life. And filled it with lies.
With every person he's ever dealt with, except this one moment where he's sitting in front of you, on the witness stand.
GLENN: Okay. So here me out on this theory.
O.J. Simpson.
I think this is a -- this is a political version of what happened to O.J. Simpson.
And I hope it doesn't turn that way in the end. But if they find him guilty, it will be exactly what happened with the O.J. Simpson case, except this is political, not racial.
The jury hates him. Donald Trump so much, that no matter what the facts say, they'll deem him guilty.
Where O.J. Simpson, the jurors wanted a black man to beat the system. Beat the man.
So badly, that they admitted now, they voted for not guilty, even though they believe the facts led to guilty.
STU: Uh-huh.
GLENN: I hope that doesn't happen. But that's what this feels like to me.
Because it's in New York. Any other place. But in New York, can you get -- with this judge, can you get a trial, that -- and with the jurors, enough jurors to tell the truth?
And, by the way, just like, you remember -- were you old enough to remember the O.J. Simpson trial?
STU: Oh, yeah. I certainly do.
GLENN: So O.J. Simpson. If you remember right, there was speculation, can the trial -- can the jurors ever identify themselves, if they find him guilty?
Because the black community was so for O.J. Simpson. And I would ask the same thing.
Can these jurors, all from New York City, can they live a normal life and not -- and live without danger, if they release him?
STU: Because -- certainly won't get invited to many parties, I will tell you that.
GLENN: No. What are all of the other factors that are coming into this?
This is tough.
STU: Isn't there a moment here for you, Glenn. Where you think a little bit about the legal system, and the fact that it's supposed to work.
And that we have a tradition of people, judging these people honestly. Isn't there at least a possibility that the hung jury. Isn't there one or two people on this jury, maybe, that look at this as this is a joke?
GLENN: It only needs one. It only needs one.
STU: Yeah.
GLENN: And it is my hope, that there is one that will hold out and say, no way. No way. I will not change my vote. No.
I don't care what you guys say. No.
Hopefully, we can pray that there's one person.
I mean, assuming, we're not in the jury room.
But what it looks like here, this is -- this is a -- this is an assault on our judicial system. Just like I think O.J. Simpson was an assault on the judicial system.
I understood that one a little more. Because the black man had been, you know, just raped in our judicial system for so long.
That I kind of -- it was still a travesty, and awful. And I hated it. But you could see it.
This one is merely politics. That's it.
STU: Yeah.
GLENN: Politics.
STU: They see this as their last opportunity to win an election in a way.
GLENN: Yes. Yes.
STU: And the other three trials probably aren't going to happen before the election. Obviously, if Trump wins, he will throw out two of them. Right? The federal stuff will all be thrown out.
This is a -- this feels like their last chance, and they're looking at this like an opportunity.
And, you know, coming into this case, Glenn. It was a weak case. Everyone knew that. The fact that it's gone so much more poorly than they even expected.
Has to rise to some level of -- of --
GLENN: You would think.
STU: Of opportunity for this to be -- I mean, doesn't it?
If you have any faith in the legal system. And look, criminals do go to jail in New York.
It's not like every single time they're wrong.
GLENN: Do they?
STU: Yeah. I think that's true. I'm pretty sure. I'm sure Harvey Weinstein is out there walking around. Forget that example.
GLENN: The plans of New York are all just -- keep Harvey away from me.
STU: Right. I mean, they don't charge anybody in New York, for crimes anymore, unless your last name is Trump.
But if you think about the average person in New York. Again, remember, the Trump attorneys had a chance to throw out anyone they thought was massively liberal and against Trump. To an extent.
GLENN: To an extent.
STU: To an extent. They did their best to find people they thought would be fairly by.
I mean, if we were really at the point where they can't find anyone to judge this rationally. We are at a real crossroads, as far as our legal system goes entirely. Right?
This is not just a question about Donald Trump and this election, it's far beyond that.
PAT: Alan Dershowitz said it. This is banana republic time.